Ok, I know already that many of you are already fuming just by reading the title, but please read completely through my article before you pass judgment on my decision. I have wrestled with this decision for the last month, and I want to be clear on why I am doing it. First, check out this video Matt Cutts put out the other day about do-follow comments on your blog:
I hope you watched that entire video, I watched it several times when he published it. If you are still mad at me for removing do-follow from this site, let me explain further.
Matt talks briefly about spam, but I moderate pretty heavily on this site, I even check the links from commentators I don’t already know to see where they go. So I am not worried about spam, although I do get plenty because this site is listed on a couple of sites as being do-follow (some I requested, others I didn’t). One thing I noticed is that he mentioned “debt consolidation” as a “scuzzy” site, I wouldn’t have thought that, so we don’t know what Google considers scuzzy and I want to have more control over where my links point.
This is where I will layout my main reason for the change. Matt hints in the video that Google tries to make sure that someone else can be commenting on do-follow blogs that are “bad neighborhoods”, and you can’t control that fact, they try to make sure that can’t affect your site.
What does that mean exactly? It means that in order to protect you, they don’t weigh comment links. Actually it seems logical to me, because of the way he put it, as well as commenting on blogs shouldn’t mean that the owner of that site wants to pass value or give your site a “vote”. The same goes for forum signatures I would assume.
So, whether the comments are no-follow or not, doesn’t help the commentor. In fact, leaving do-follow on, hurts any other links I might want to put in my article, where I might actually want the most PR to flow from my site (internally or externally) because of the way the links are split up to flow the PR.
I enjoy having posts with 50+ comments, and if I lose some of that, I know the ones that stopped commenting were only here for links anyway, the others comment because they have something to add, and I would rather have those comments because they are genuine.
My solution is to turn off the do-follow in the comments, but leave it on in my sidebar for “Top Commentor”. I think this will be the most beneficial to everyone involved. The links in the sidebar appear on my home page, which is the only page that has PR right now anyway, as well as every other page on my site (right now Google has 195 pages indexed for this site). So if you comment often, you will remain in that section and get 200 do-follow links from this site (ever growing as I post regularly), and as my PR grows, the value of those links will increase as well.
Ok, so let the comments fly, agree? Disagree? What do you think, will it affect your comments here?
Related posts:
Sooo, comment links count for exactly ZERO; that about right?
I don’t currently have sound, anything else of importance in the video?
.-= Dennis Edell´s last blog ..Do You Know The REAL Difference Between Bloggers and Internet Marketers? =-.
@Dennis Edell, Pretty much, that was the most important part of it that I got. He said that anyone could be commenting on your behalf, so those links might not be because you want them. I think if you go to youtube to watch it there is captioning.
On another note, commenting is a great way for promotion, I found you because of your relentless amount of commenting you do and I noticed how you actually value community in the comments by replying to other commentors as well as leaving value added comments about the post.
So I wouldn’t say they are worthless at all, but I think natural links and linking out to higher authority sites will be a much better way of working linkbuilding for PR sake, and I have said that before. Commenting is more about adding to community, and the links are advertising (just the way I look at it though).
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Linking Out For SEO =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal, Hey man I’m with ya, I haven’t used commenting for link building since Commentluv was invented; it’s all about the community for me.
.-= Dennis Edell´s last blog ..Do You Know The REAL Difference Between Bloggers and Internet Marketers? =-.
@Dennis Edell, I knew how you felt about this Dennis, from previous article I wrote on comment links. Thanks for your continued support, and I still plan on using your site for my future keyword research ebook (will be free of course) and I will be in touch over the next week or two to discuss with you.
@Keith Bloemendaal, Sweet, lookin forward to seeing what you got in mind.
.-= Dennis Edell´s last blog ..Do You Know The REAL Difference Between Bloggers and Internet Marketers? =-.
Keith,
I don’t care if you are nofollow or dofollow. I will still comment on your site, when I have something to say about your articles. You put out some great articles and are worth reading and commenting on.
Let us know if your comment spam goes down after removing the DoFollow.
.-= element321´s last blog ..Uptime Robot Server Monitoring Services =-.
@element321, I am sure the spam will go dawn, but I am still listed on several do-follow directories.
Thanks for the compliment too, I always appreciate your comments.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..4 Tips To Get More Blog Exposure Via Twitter =-.
I was wrestling with this subject during migration to Wordpress, have been a do-follow ever since. I must say there are pros & cons for both sides. It’s a choice but I understand your concern. There were so many times I didn’t even realized whether I’m in a DoFollow blog or not, so that won’t stop me from commenting on your blog, Keith. Content & networking is what I’m looking for.
Keep up the good work.
@wchingya
Social/Blogging Tracker
.-= Ching Ya@Social Media Blogging´s last blog ..Art Of Communicating in Social Networks =-.
@Ching Ya@Social Media Blogging, Thanks Ching, I always enjoy your well thought out and value added comments here.
There are pros and cons to both, and the pros are why I left the do-follow in my top commentor widget in the sidebar. The cons are why I removed them from the actual comments.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Drooling On PageRank =-.
You have raised several different points so I would like to address them separately.
1) You wrote, “in order to protect you, they [Google] don’t weigh comment links” and you also wrote “So, whether the comments are no-follow or not, doesn’t help the commentor. In fact, leaving do-follow on, hurts any other links I might want to put in my article, where I might actually want the most PR to flow from my site (internally or externally) because of the way the links are split up to flow the PR.”
So you are assuming that Google is disregarding comment links and therefore the magical Google Juice those comments are portioned evaporates?
2) You wrote: “I enjoy having posts with 50+ comments, and if I lose some of that, I know the ones that stopped commenting were only here for links anyway, the others comment because they have something to add, and I would rather have those comments because they are genuine.”
With this I must disagree. There are so many bloggers writing high quality content that it is impossible to read it all. At some point we must decide where to focus our time. We must all make a choice.
I have publicly stated that I choose to uplift generous bloggers who support each other, small business and good causes. I see bloggers who are dofollow and who install CommentLuv and KeywordLuv as the people most willing to work to create a better world so their blogs are the ones I write about, link to and share across Social Networks.
I am NOT saying that those who choose to be nofollow have lower quality. I do not believe that they may not also want to make the world better for all. Perhaps they do. What I AM saying is time is our most precious resource and in order to achieve maximum effectiveness we must be willing to make conscious choices.
My personal choice is to focus my time and efforts on supporting generous bloggers who use do follow, CommentLuv and KeywordLuv. I respect those who choose otherwise and wish them well.
I must do what I believe is right even if Google chooses to penalize us. So far that has not happened. They have far too much power and we have got to stop folding to their every whim. They only control us because we allow it – and if you think they don’t you don’t see the analytics accounts I do or know what I know.
Anyone interested in learning more can look at the posts about organic search and ppc in my Best of GrowMap post and three recent posts on BizLuv and KeywordLuv. Maybe we can succeed in keeping small and online businesses open; maybe we can’t. But in the end I for one will sleep well knowing I did what I could.
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..MEME: BizLuv in Support of Small Businesses =-.
@Gail @ KeywordLuv, I am not assuming, I am going by what was said in the video, which is that because of the nature of comments, Google does that to protect your sites. I have actually thought that this was the case anyway because there are so many people selling linkbuilding services through commenting on blogs, thus trying to build PR and SERP rankings by gaming the system.
My comment about people stopping comments because I removed do-follow are how I feel about it. If you think that by removing do-follow from my comments I am not supportive of my network and the blogging community around me, you don’t know me very well. There are far better ways to give support.
As far as your comment about keyword luv, comment luv and do-follow. I will disagree with how you view these bloggers. Plenty of them are doing it just to increase comments on their sites, and could care less about anybody but themselves. Yes there are also bloggers that feel a part of a “community” by doing that.
I take it from your comment, you will be one that will stop commenting here, and I see that as a move only because I removed do-follow from my comments, there is no other reason you stated that I can see. Stating that you choose to support those that are only a part of some community of do-followers is somewhat like being a part of some clique. I don’t condone that sort of networking. I prefer to look at actual content of those I network with, how I can help, and how they can help me. It makes no difference if a blog is do-follow or not, I comment if I have something to say.
You speak of do-follow as if it is a way of life, or some religion “I must do what I think is right”. Seriously, the reason people have and comment on do-follow is to get links, otherwise they wouldn’t care. Why do they want links? Because Google ranks your site based on links pointing to it (along with 200 other factors). So, in one sentence, you are doing what is right, but in the other you are doing it to get more links?
I stand by my position, I am sure there will be ones that disagree, but I am doing it for the reasons I stated, it seemed pretty clear to me that the do-follow links in comments don’t actually get much recognition from Google anyway, so it isn’t hurting anyone by shutting them off. Furthermore, by shutting them off, it gives more value to the links that I put in my articles pointing to people I am sometimes (sometimes not) trying to pass juice to. Is that so bad?
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..4 Tips To Get More Blog Exposure Via Twitter =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal,
Those types are unlikely to become customers anyway. I think it’s a good move on your behalf.
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Are You Too Scared to Become a Hero? =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal,
You replied that “Seriously, the reason people have and comment on do-follow is to get links, otherwise they wouldn’t care.”
To me that would be putting the cart before the horse. I comment as I have time because there is an issue raised to which I feel I can contribute that makes a difference in our lives.
The truth is there are far more opportunities to do that online than anyone could ever participate in so the wise must decide where to focus their time because focused actions are more effective than widely scattered activities.
This is why I focus on participating in a specific type of blog community. What is more effective? Commenting once in 1000 blogs or commenting 20 times each in 50 blogs?
Which commentators do you value more highly? Those who comment once or the ones who comment regularly? Whose blog are you more likely to visit? Who are you more likely to interact with online or write about and link to in an blog post?
As I said it is simply a choice we each make every day. The primary difference is that I have publicly stated what my choice is rather than allowing my activities to reveal it (and most to not notice what it is).
I do not know you very well at all and I do agree there are much better ways to support others with writing about and linking to them in the body of posts prime among them.
Do follow, CommentLuv and KeywordLuv are not the only criterion I have for deciding who to interact with most often but they are a good indicator.
Perhaps privately you can share some dofollow bloggers who use these two plugins that you feel are not generous. I can not think of any examples I have come across that I felt were both do follow and using these plugins for purely selfish reasons.
As I stated in my KeywordLuv post, I do find it disingenuous to use these plugins that are so connected to the dofollow community and make them nofollow. Perhaps some will consider that opinion too harsh but I do not.
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..KeywordLuv: How Using It Benefits Us All =-.
@Gail @ KeywordLuv,
“This is why I focus on participating in a specific type of blog community. What is more effective? Commenting once in 1000 blogs or commenting 20 times each in 50 blogs?”
This is one huge difference between us Gail. I comment because I have something to say, I read blogs that are of interest to me and talk about topics I am researching. The comment, to me, is about community. The link is for promotion. If you are commenting to support others, then why leave a link? I think you are commenting here because you have a deep opinion on this topic, and not because you are wanting to support me or my blog, and that shows in the article length, very well thought out comments you have left, which have added great value to a debate.
Again, I think that using certain plugins as indicators of where you will comment or not, is very “cliquish” and I would rather base my criterion upon your content, and whether or not I have something to say about it.
I agree with you on KeywordLuv, so I will be removing that plugin as well. If the links are no-follow, what is the use in leaving a keyword for the link. Also, I will consider only allowing comments with a real name in them, or at least your brand.
Thanks again for being able to express your side of this debate without sounding like childish congressmen debating health care (been watching today).
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Linking Out For SEO =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal,
Even nofollow links actually have value unlike links with just names or both names and keywords. That is the major reason I support KeywordLuv.
Have you read my post about it? It contains far more details on exactly why I recommend do follow, CommentLuv and KeywordLuv.
I don’t see these as being all about links as I explained in my post. It is more about community. What someone chooses as their featured post and anchor text helps me to get to know them faster. It lets me know what they have written about lately and whether we have anything in common.
The CommentLuv community reminds me of the television show Cheers. I almost never visit a new (to me) blog without running into someone I already know. If you really want to understand where someone is coming from you have only to read their blog.
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..KeywordLuv: How Using It Benefits Us All =-.
@Gail @ KeywordLuv, I agree with everything you say in your post (just read it) until the very last paragraph. It is not disingenuous to use these plugins without dofollow in my opinion, because I don’t think you should be commenting for links. Everything else you stated makes perfect sense, being able to see what someone does by keywords, and seeing a link to an article with the title, but the dofollow has absolutely nothing to do with those things.
The article you wrote is a great resource for how to use commentluv and keywordluv, but you claim that using them with nofollow is disingenuous is wrong. There are probably people using those plugins that don’t even know the difference between no-follow or do-follow.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Removing DoFollow From This Site =-.
@Gail,
Hi Keith,
The actual post says, “I personally find it disingenuous to use these plugins that are so connected to the dofollow community and make them nofollow.”
The “I personally find” part should clearly indicate that this is my personal opinion. (And no, I haven’t changed that since I read your comment – just in case anyone wonders. That is the original wording.)
On this we must agree to disagree. I believe dofollow matters. That too is my personal opinion and I respect the rights of all to have their own opinions and make their own decisions.
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..Twelve Generous FollowFriday Folks =-.
@Gail @ KeywordLuv, you said:
I see bloggers who MANUALLY write blog posts that LINK to other bloggers as the people most willing to WORK to create a better world.
If someone is so LAZY that they have to “share the love” with AUTOMATED plugin or tool, more power to them. DoFollow, CommentLuv and such are completely OK, I just don’t think someone not using them is any less of a blogger – you do have to remember that “nofollow” is the default in most blogging platforms, and 99.9% of the bloggers in world don’t even no what “nofollow” means and they don’t have to either.
With that said, I don’t value other bloggers based on whether they dofollow or nofollow like you do. I don’t value them based on what they do for me. I’m just happy I can do something for them.
.-= Antti Kokkonen@Zemalf.com´s last blog ..Give it Away for Free =-.
@Antti Kokkonen@Zemalf.com,
I agree that manually writing about and linking to other bloggers is far more important and something I do regularly as do the other bloggers with whom I interact.
It is simply a fact that there are only so many hours in the day. Providing plugins is not being lazy; it is adding more functionality than we have time to do manually.
No follow was artificially mandated by Google; it is the natural condition of any link. We do not “dofollow” a link – we REMOVE nofollow from it.
Thinking in terms of what others can do for us is selfish – not generous. Those who are sincerely generous do not keep score or watch to see what someone else is or is not doing “for us”.
It is a different way of looking at life as what is best for all rather than what is best for you, or me, or any other specific individual.
I do not desire to collaborate with the 99.9% who do not understand; I do wish to reach out to that 00.1% that do and are already taking action. Any who wish are welcome to join us in this; it is not an exclusionary community – it is a self-selecting community.
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..MEME: BizLuv in Support of Small Businesses =-.
@Gail @ KeywordLuv,
Well gail, it is clear to me that your scarcity mentality and selfish nature will keep you from ever achieving success in this business.
In the words of Willy Wonka:
“I said GOOD DAY”
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Are You Too Scared to Become a Hero? =-.
@Nathan Hangen,
Time will tell.
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..BizLuv MEME: How to Support Your Fav Businesses =-.
I am never, ever commenting here again! Are you serious Keith, I mean come on!
Just kidding man
I totally understand your reasoning and that won’t keep me from commenting here. Sometimes you’ve gotta take action, just like what ProBlogger had to do because they were getting so much spam. Now, commenting on posts is only open for 90 days or so and then it’s closed.
.-= Mike Stenger´s last blog ..Don’t Work Towards Success. Do This Instead =-.
@Mike Stenger, Unfortunately for ProBlogger, the spam is still in the comments, and then when someone wants to comment on an older post, then they can’t. Maybe someday I will have to deal with hundreds of comments per article and will have to decide what to do.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Blogging Is Easy? =-.
@Mike Stenger, This is what I totally appose. Sorry, no good reason to close comments completely on any posts, laziness aside.
.-= Dennis Edell´s last blog ..Do You Know The REAL Difference Between Bloggers and Internet Marketers? =-.
Excellent choice! DoFollow comments are great IF you want people in your blog who: 1) are spammers 2) just want links to their blogs. Having “normal” comments, you still get both of those, but instead of getting swamped by meaningless B.S. comments, you actually get intelligent people who have something to say.
If someone likes to have DoFollow blog just to build up number of comments, go ahead, but what good is that in the end? Traffic? All you get is people who come in, get their link and leave. Others who see that you have a lot of comments, but are not there for links, read the comments, see that they don’t make any sense and/or don’t say anything (because the comments have been left by people who just want links) and they leave too.
Instead of DoFollow comments people should just make a section on their blogs that says “post your link with any keywords you want here”. No comment, no BS, just the link those people want anyway.
Don’t get me wrong, I do plenty of commenting on DoFollow blogs, but 90% of the time I’m there commenting for the link. I often try to come up with something useful, but why bother when 99.9% of the other comments are full of it, and no-one reads the comments on DoFollow blogs anyway, because 99.9% of the comments just says “nice post” (translation: thanks for the link).
DoFollow comments attract the wrong kind of audience. I prefer discussing things with Bob and Beatrice than “free pr0n and other stuff” or “mykeywordheavywebsitename.com”. At best, blog comments are discussion, collaboration and great way to build a community. And I’d much more prefer having a community and real people on my blog than spam bots and marketers who don’t know about better ways to build links.
A bit of this is valid for CommentLuv as well. And even top commentators. yes, they too increase the number of comments, but do they encourage the right kind of comments?
Wouldn’t it be better to reward people for their great comments with a blog post featuring their insightful comment, with your additional notes, and good fat FOLLOW link straight from the post with targeted keywords to their site?
.-= Antti Kokkonen@Zemalf.com´s last blog ..The games we play and the stupid **** we do to get seen online =-.
@Antti Kokkonen@Zemalf.com, I will say this, looking back over this site since I took it over (Jan 31st) and the site I moved from (both do-follow), we built community in the comments, and I don’t see very many disingenuous comments.
I will agree 100%, that by me writing an article linking to you with quality anchor text, is a much better “reward” to someone that is deserving of it, and I think that is what Google had in mind when they created the algorithm.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Linking Out For SEO =-.
@Antti Kokkonen@Zemalf.com, Any crappy comments on a post, there in an obvious attempt at nothing more then a backlink are the sole fault of the blogger for not moderating properly.
.-= Dennis Edell´s last blog ..Do You Know The REAL Difference Between Bloggers and Internet Marketers? =-.
That was quite an eye opening video. I am not surprised about the first part but I am surprised about do follow links not having as much value as most of think. It is definitely something to think about and I can see where you are coming from. I am going to stay do follow for the time being but I might up the amount of comments someone has to make before it kicks in. That way I will cut down on spam and be rewarding the top commentators. I have stopped advertising my blog as do follow recently in an effort to stop the drive bys.
BTW, this will be the last comment I make on your blog. Just kidding
.-= Tycoon Blogger@blog promote´s last blog ..What makes someone an expert at blogging? =-.
@Tycoon Blogger@blog promote, I had mine set at 3 comments, now you will have to get on the top commentors list to get a do-follow link.
It was an eye opener for me too, and I had my suspicions already.
@Keith Bloemendaal,
what plugin are plugin are you using to configure DoFollow? Mine plugin Doesn’t do anything but turn it on.
.-= element321´s last blog ..Weekly Link Love Feb 21 =-.
@element321, I was using no-follow free.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Removing DoFollow From This Site =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal,
Thank you, I just found and am testing, to see if I like mine better or this new one.
.-= element321´s last blog ..Uptime Robot Server Monitoring Services =-.
@element321, I am currently using Lucias linky love plugin, I think its the same as his in that you can set it up to 10
.-= Dennis Edell´s last blog ..Do You Know The REAL Difference Between Bloggers and Internet Marketers? =-.
Keith, How many more comments do I have to leave in order to get listed as a top commentator?
Just kidding.
You can learn a lot from watching that YouTube channel. I like that the videos are short and sweet, and that he actually answers a question for goodness sake. And it’s usually a question that everyone is talking about.
You know how the song goes, It’s your thang, do what you wanna do…That’s a great song, If I find it on Blip.fm I’ll tweet it to you.
Cheers!
.-= ileane´s last blog ..Blogging Legacy – Have You Considered Yours? =-.
After watching that video, reading your thoughts, and the assorted comments above, I have a question that nobody has asked and you haven’t stated:
Do you keep writing great stuff on your blog to be indexed by a machine or for people to read, share with their colleagues, and maybe add a comment? If you’re like me, it’s number two. But maybe you prefer number one, in which case do what you need to do. But I don’t buy that argument because I write for people.
.-= Ari Herzog@Online Marketing Tips´s last blog ..How to Enhance Your Blog Comment: Forget the Comment =-.
@Ari Herzog@Online Marketing Tips, If that is the case Ari, why leave a keyword in your link (keywordluv), are you not also interested in people finding your blog through search, therefore you are obviously trying to rank for the term “online marketing tips” and are therefore also doing things so a machine will see that.
Whether my comments have dofollow or not shouldn’t affect my content for the readers, so I don’t really get your statement. I actually do write content for humans, and I am a big proponent of that.
So I ask you, what does dofollow have to do with whether or not my content is for humans or not? By that statement, it shouldn’t matter either way.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Blogging Is Easy? =-.
Like almost all people said here, I will not stop commenting on your blog because you removed the Do-Follow, I don’t even care or check sites I comment on them for that!
I comment mostly for networking purposes and when I have something today!
Another solution for this problem is to set the number of comments before removing the no-follow tag to a higher number, this how you will grantee no DoFollow for what ever person commenting on your blog! this is how I do it.
.-= Hesham @ FamousBloggers´s last blog ..Why Do You Comment On Blogs? =-.
@Hesham @ FamousBloggers, Thanks Hesham, and I have appreciated all that you have done for me over the last 2 months as I made the transition over to this site, you have been very helpful.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Drooling On PageRank =-.
Keith,
It’s all good! I delete comments on my site that are spammy…you can tell. The only thing I don’t like about this discussion is the fact that Google continues to be big brother and twist everyone’s arms to control the internet…call me crazy…but they work far too hard trying to keep all of us in their “sand box”.
.-= Todd @ Home Construction & Improvement´s last blog ..DIY Foam Insulation =-.
@Todd @ Home Construction & Improvement, Unfortunately, until something else takes over the way people find our sites, we are stuck with Google.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..4 Tips To Get More Blog Exposure Via Twitter =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal,
WE are in control of how we find sites and it is our collective fault that Google has all the traffic. All we have to do is use a different search engine and ideally an independent search engine. Personally, I prefer DuckDuckGo.
We have no control of what others do but we can influence their choices. That is why I am commenting in this thread: to show that there ARE other options to choose.
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..My Review of The New Community Rules =-.
@Gail @ KeywordLuv, When you say “we” I assume you are talking about webmasters/bloggers. Google has the search market because they are good at what they do, I like and use Google not because I am at their mercy, but because they provide me the best results for my own searches. I am sure that is why so many others use Google as well.
I agree that there are other choices, I made mine because of the reasons I stated in my article, the main one being that I don’t want the links in comments (which apparently aren’t valued by Google anyway) to water down the links in my articles and sidebar. With 50+ comments in an article and 2- 3 links in each comment (keywordluv, commentluv, and twitter) that is 150+ links per page, on a site that has a high PR, that won’t matter.
Honestly, from the comments I have received both here and on twitter and skype, it won’t change the amount of comments I get very much.
I initially started using do-follow (as you mentioned above, do-follow doesn’t really exist but I didn’t want to explain that whole mess) a couple of months ago to encourage more comments, it did just that. But, were they really commenting for my articles, or for a link. If the content is good, and you have an opinion, what does it matter if the link is do-follow or not?
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Blogging Is Easy? =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal,
Hi Keith,
By “we” I mean all Internet users. We have collectively given Google a monopoly which they can use as they wish. Many assume they give the best results (have you tested any other search engines lately) and others have no idea what search engine their ISP or browser uses by default).
It appears unlikely that I can encourage some to step back far enough to see the entire forest so I will close with this thought:
Does it matter why commentators read and comment on your content or only that they do?
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..BizLuv MEME: How to Support Your Fav Businesses =-.
Sorry I’m late. So, I understand each side of the argument quite well. I do tend to see if the blog I am leaving a comment on is Luv friendly, not because it will prevent me from leaving a comment, but because it matters what I put in the name block. Not luv friendly – CJ, luv friendly = name with keyword.
So let me ask you this — would you go to a business conference to talk with your peers and not carry business cards? I mean, you are supporting your peers right? But aren’t you there to network too? Do you want them to know about you, about what you do? Luv plugins are just an easier way for me to quickly know you and what you do.
I can’t tell you how many good bloggers and small business owners and other site designers I have found thanks to that plugin. Without the luv plugin I would never have found some people who are now not only contemparies of mine, but friends.
Sometimes I don’t have time to read the whole article and a slew of comments. By I can scan a slew of comments in a few seconds and quickly find other good articles that will help me when researching a post. To manually search via Google or whatever would take a lot more time.
So to me Luv plugins aren’t selfish or self promoting, but another way to network, while supporting the people in my community. For the driveby commentators or spammers, setting the dofollow comment limit higher should stop a good many in their and thereby give quality backlinks to those who are truly there because they want to support you.
@CJ@Online Technical Help, That is a great way to look at the luv plugins, and I like using them to. I like especially the commentluv plugin where you can leave a link to a recent article, I have discovered many great blogs this way.
None of the luv plugins have anything to do with do-follow though. I have the plugins, and my dofollow comments is shut off right now.
You weren’t late either, I am sure this one will be debated for a bit….
Thanks for the comment and for taking the time to write a value added one at that.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Removing DoFollow From This Site =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal, I actually found you because of GrowMap and what to my wonderous surprise, a great many other people I follow are in here too.
This is a great debate and while I agree that we should not give Google so much power, it’s hard to break away from the pack. 73% of all searches are done on Google and the rest are trying to write algorithms to mirror them. Are they better than the other search engines? I don’t know. I will tell you that when I can’t use Google (long story) then I use Bing. Bing does not return a good selection compared to Google. I will go try the DuckDuck one, but not sure anything is going to knock Google out of place for a long time.
I also have to take care of my clients and they want #1 in Google, so while I may agree that the monoploy that Google has is not a good thing, until my clients start requesting SEO for another search engine, I’m forced on their behalf to do what they feel best for their company.
As for my startup and clients adding blogs to their site, I will still recommend they comment on DoFollow blogs when possible because it will build up their traffic, if nothing else. Setting a high limit on DoFollow links will cut down on the spam as I have seen it take a dramtic fall off when I implemented DoFollow comment limits.
Thanks for the debate Keith, I look forward to seeing where this all ends up. I wonder, will there ever be a meeting of the minds?
.-= CJ@Online Technical Help´s last blog ..Technical Writers as Linchpins: Are You Indispensable? =-.
I comment on things I think I am contributing to by saying something. I have never paid attention to the whole follow thing.
.-= Brian Inman´s last blog ..Time To Fire Up My Shredder On Steroids for Warhammer Online February Producers Letter =-.
@Brian Inman, If you keep it that way, then you will do well Brian. Commenting is not about links, it is about community.
It took me until December to finally understand what in the world do-follow vs. no-follow means. Then there is all this SEO stuff that still makes me a bit cross-eyed. I don’t always leave a link in the comment luv section when I comment since I don’t want people to think I’m just there for the link back. I’ll still be checking things out here and commenting when I have something to add [not including this comment].
.-= Anne´s last blog ..How to Add Your Google Reader Feeds as a Blogroll on Your Site =-.
@Anne, Thanks Anne, and I appreciate your comments when you do stop by
I don’t think this is a big deal at all. Blogs and sites go do and no follow all the time and we all know damn well Google tracks EVERY link…. So so what if they are not weighting ranking on a certain dofollow link, as Matt says in the vid, it’s not the be all and end all of everything.
I comment on pots that interest me and have been doing so for a long time. Over the few years I have been doing so I am sure many of my comments have become do and many no…. It all balances out. However everytime you leave a comment it’s a potential place for one more person to click through to your blog.
I support your decision, it’s your blog and I won’t stop commenting if I feel compelled to do so, I real 90% of your posts that come to my inbox and probably comment on 10% and am happy to continue that besides of nofollow or whatever.
Thanks,
Forest.
.-= Forest´s last blog ..Save Money On Printing =-.
@Forest, So, I finally get to see who my one and only subscriber is!
You hit the nail on the head Forest. Comment when you have something to say, if someone likes your comment, they may click through to your site… BONUS.
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by kbloemendaal: RT @HotBlogTips Removing DoFollow From This Site http://tinyurl.com/yh2ho4c...
Hi Keith,
Thanks for letting us know. You’ve got to do what you’ve gotta do for the good of your site and business. I, for one, will keep visiting and commenting.
Best regards,
Adrian
.-= Adrian Swinscoe´s last blog ..Ask more to get more =-.
@Adrian Swinscoe, Thanks Adrian, looking forward to continuing to build a community here with those of you that do understand what I am trying to accomplish.
Hey Keith,
This post really created some stir. I’m with you on that decision. I share the same sentiment and as far as link droppers and spam are concerned, I think I have more to bear with my niche blog and also because Google is my main traffic source, 60%. I’ve been thinking about switching to nofollow as well but not anytime soon.
I once read a blog post linked by Andy Beard (who also maintains a dofollow blog) about a guy who obviously has nofollow in the comments but certainly don’t have the time to moderate the comments on his blog and check where the links point to.
He had this particular traffic driving post gone in the SERPs after discovering it in his GA account. He figured out the cause and it was a comment linking to a bad neighborhood. He immediately removed the comment and so the post went back in the SERP.
This only means, that dofollow or not, the links are followed by Google afterall. They’ve said it way back. The only trouble is linking to bad sites that’s why I’m very strict in implementing my comment policy.
I don’t find any reason why some bloggers would have to be averse with your decision unless they have some ulterior motive which was only for their own benefit and not to actually engage.
By the way, I came to this post through John Sullivan’s Buzz on my Gmail. I got curious so I read on. Anyway, how’s the Dell ST2310? Did the guys from PowerPivot already shipped it to you? Let me know when it arrived and if ever, can you give me a picture of it with you?
I got some stuff going on which I hope you’d pay a visit from the latest post below. Let me know what you think. By the way, that day when I called your phone, I also called John and we talked on Skype for a while.
.-= Mathdelane ´s last blog ..Conversion Hosting Converts Your Online Efforts into Profit =-.
@Mathdelane, Great comment Math! Google does say that they may or may not follow links that are no-follow, so letting spam get through on any blog is dangerous.
I haven’t gotten the monitor yet, but they have been in touch with me and said they shipped this week. We have had lots of snow so I am not sure if/when the UPS man can get here, but I am really excited about getting it. I told them I would write a post about winning it linking to them after I get it.
Heading over to check out your article now
@Keith Bloemendaal, That’s exactly the point of moderating comments and checking links!
About the monitor, that’s good to know that they are keeping in touch. I wish they had given me the same stuff but none, honestly. It was all gratis so to speak but it was an honor to be picked by them out of the many tech blogs out there.
Looking forward to see that prize with you.
-Cheers!
PS I’m having a blast watching the Winter games everyday although it was really hot in here (Manila).
.-= Mathdelane´s last blog ..Conversion Hosting Converts Your Online Efforts into Profit =-.
@Mathdelane,
Since Mathdelane brought up ulterior motives I thought I would attempt one last time to explain why I believe in bloggers willing to belong to the dofollow CommentLuv KeywordLuv community.
I know those who insist on focusing on one tree and continue to see how the health of the forest can affect that one tree will think this comment going off topic. I beg your indulgence and assure you this IS the topic.
My ulterior motive is the survival of small and online businesses and blogs. While most bloggers are not reliant on their sites for their livelihood now, they could be and most online businesses and traditional businesses just getting into blogging already are.
Mathdelane shared that 60% of his traffic comes from Google. I have had access to the analytics accounts of dozens of ecommerce stores and have seen that run as high as 70-90%. Any business willing to trust 60-90% of their traffic and revenue to ONE source – ANY one source – is courting disaster.
By making is more obvious what your commentators offer we assist them in gaining a new source of traffic and sales. Only those who pro-actively seek out new business online will survive because the value of the dollar will continue to slide (and has been for a very long time) and that means what it will buy will continue to decline.
We must all open our eyes and think logically. How can there be economic recovery unless there are jobs EQUIVALENT to or BETTER THAN those that have been lost? Replacing a career that paid a decent salary and had full benefits and a real pension with lower paying jobs with no benefits and a 401K (if that) can not maintain our individual or collective standard of living.
The less each person has to spend the fewer others benefit and the entire economy MUST decline. There is only one solution to this – supporting your favorite local and online businesses.
Why do we tolerate paid commercials everywhere from those who can afford them because they take the bulk of the wealth with their huge overheads while refusing to allow deserving businesses whose incomes directly benefit our economy to gain our attention? Doing so will be for our own benefit IF those who we patronize spend what they earn in other small businesses.
This is why there must be communities of bloggers who clearly understand how to make a better world by supporting only those who will support others. Anyone interested in knowing more can start with the post that I have linked to this comment in the Website field.
Since I broached all this I ask that we not hijack Keith’s post to discuss any of that in depth and keep comments here focused on why we do or do not believe in using do follow. I had to share this to fully explain my position and do not wish to be the cause of this discussion running off the rails.
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..MEME: BizLuv in Support of Small Businesses =-.
@Gail @ KeywordLuv, Your comments here are mainly arguing only the point that keywordluv and commentluv are so very important to express your support for fellow bloggers. I agree with you on this, Do-follow has nothing to do with those arguments Gail and through all the debate, I have yet to see a valid reason for any blogger to use do-follow in their comments.
You said your self, writing about a colleague and linking to them in a post is far more helpful to that blogger. By leaving do-follow on in the comments and adding 100+ do-follow links, that colleague gets the shaft so that some bloggers who I may or may not read and respect get links in my comments? That to me is a slap in the face to the person I may actually be trying to help.
Support for other businesses and bloggers is something that should be earned, not just given because they are a small business and don’t have the advertising capital to put commercials on the air.
Why on earth would anybody support businesses based on a “group” they belong to within the blogging community? It waters down any recommendations you make if you are only recommending them so others can go to their site and leave a comment with keywords and article links, and honestly sounds like a shady practice I would not want to be a part of.
Business is earned, not automatically given because you are a small business! As a business man who has started and still operate several businesses, I would like to say that it takes hard work to make it, and there is good reason for that. If it was easy, everyone would do it. You are not guaranteed any success, you have to earn it.
Are we to stoop to level of supporting a business just because they exist? Not me, if your business or blog provides valuable services or information, I am more than happy to promote it, bu tit certainly won’t be because you are part of some do-follow group.
Back to the Google statement you made. I would hope that no blogger puts their eggs all in on Google, but lets face real facts here: Google is the single largest search engine in the world. You can pass that off as something we should overthrow because you hate big business, but I prefer to embrace the fact that I make a living from that search traffic on some of my sites. Not just a little money, but a full time income. If Google falls apart, there will be another to take its place and will most likely hold most of the search traffic as well.
And one more time Gail, do-follow has nothing to do with making available what people that comment on my site do and offer. Furthermore, if it harms my site, why would I sacrifice my site for you or anybody else? And honestly, I don’t want commentators that are only here to self promote, use your own site and social media for self promotion.
@Keith Bloemendaal,
It is unfortunate that you and I did not know each other better previously; if you knew me better you would know many of the answers I am about to offer.
You wrote, “Are we to stoop to level of supporting a business just because they exist?”
Absolutely not. I do not recommend any business or blog that I do not passionately and sincerely believe in.
Businesses that simply exist will not be on our radar because their owners will not be wise enough to figure out how to survive. Only those who are so excellent that others who DO know how will assist them will stay in business.
You wrote “I would hope that no blogger puts their eggs all in on Google”
My point is that today businesses and blogs have little other choice. There is no other major source of traffic until we create one. Today they choose to allow you to earn “a full time income”.
Trusting that will continue? Their CEO has publicly stated that the Internet is a “cesspool”. “Brands are the solution, not the problem,” Mr. Schmidt said. “Brands are how you sort out the cesspool.”
It would be naive to believe that by brands he means anything other than select multi-national Corporations. They have publicly announced their intentions.
I have spent most of my time over the past 17 months seeking out ways for businesses to tap other major sources of traffic. I challenge anyone to tell me where even ONE source is that could replace even 20% of what that one search engine sends.
What we all must have is hundreds or even thousands of small, independent sources.
Our ancestors understood how dangerous monopolies are to our freedom and prosperity. By our collective behavior few recognize the threat this truly is.
Even if do follow blogs are being penalized I will continue to support dofollow. As of right now though I do not believe it to be a serious risk and I present as my evidence these four blogs (yours and three others).
Yours is currently PR1 and mine is PR3. Few bloggers include as many outbound links in their posts as I do or have as many dofollow comments and replies in their posts.
Of the ten posts currently appearing in the most popular plugin on my site, six are PR2 even though one of those has more comments than any other post on the site and others have very large numbers of comments.
Further, as I have higher priorities and am far more lax about which comments are appearing than any blogger I can name, there are many comments purists would consider spam. Yet those posts are still PR2.
I concede that perhaps their PR would be higher if there were fewer links or my blog were not dofollow. I do not know of a way to determine that. I also concede that I could be wrong and most importantly that this could change at any moment.
I present as further evidence the blog of Kristi Hines at Kikolani.com. If there is a stronger proponent of Dofollow than me it is Kristi. Her blog is PR4 and far better known than mine.
Since she does not use a Most Popular plugin I can not easily share how many of her posts have PR but I would expect it to be similar to mine.
John Sullivan has already commented in this thread and he is another backer of dofollow. His blog is PR4 and if any blog was going to get slapped for controversial content plus being dofollow it would be his.
It would take an SEO more versed in how PR is awarded to determine whether or not the current PRs of these three blogs are lower than they would be if they were nofollow but it IS obvious that they DO have PR.
Based on the above evidence it does not appear that dofollow is detrimental at this time.
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..Search Engine Positions: Easy Free Ways to Track =-.
@Gail @ KeywordLuv, I am actually good friends with John, and have worked with Kristi on 2 different collaborative sites, so I know their blogs well.
My site is a PR1 because it sat dormant for almost 6mos by the previous owner before I took it over on Jan 31st.
I am not making my decision based on PR of my site, I am making it based on the value of the links pointing out to those I link to.
I am not sure I have seen a do-follow site get past a PR5 (I know of a couple of PR5’s and many PR4’s) so that could be an indicator, maybe not. But, I am not a big PR person, I don’t think it makes you money, so PR is not high on my list of priorities for this blog, although I believe I will be atleast a 3 if not a 4 on the next update, simply because the site is active again.
I am not sure that do-follow hurts a blog per se, but I want the links in my posts (some of them will get higher PR as they age) to have the most value. It is not to penalize anyone that comments here, but to help the ones I am actually trying to help.
This is becoming obviously an out-staging of the author’s decision to set his own rules. This is all about this blog and its author’s decision so let’s respect that. All arguments are considered regardless (for conversational reasons even if they are too blatantly self-promotional) but please, if you’re in complete contradiction of another person’s point of view, I think one comment is enough and you have your own blog to self-promote and rant all the way you want. Peace out. Thanks for the comment space Keith!
.-= Mathdelane´s last blog ..Conversion Hosting Converts Your Online Efforts into Profit =-.
@Mathdelane,
I want to assure both Mathdelane and Keith that I totally respect Keith’s decision and recognize that all bloggers have every right to set their own policies.
My entire intention in commenting in this post is to further the discussion so that others can benefit from our two disparate viewpoints and thereby make their own best decision on this issue.
Only Keith can say whether he has any objections to our continued discussion. By his answers I felt he was interested enough for me to reply to his responses.
Keith stated that he had struggled with this decision over many months which is an indication that he is wise and wise people welcome additional input even when they are secure in what they have chosen.
I am also interested in Keith’s reasons for changing. It is always possible that he could know something that would cause me to re-evaluate my own choices.
.-= Gail @ KeywordLuv´s last blog ..Better Twitter Retweets From Favorite Twitter Apps =-.
@Gail @ KeywordLuv, Don’t misundersatand my intentions Gail, I appreciate your comments (even though I don’t agree with all of them) and I enjoy a healthy debate. I think we are all adults here, and have acted accordingly.
I didn’t watch the video Keith, I don’t particularly care what Google thinks. If anything Matt is trying to influence the way people act by producing that video. He knows that Google has no control over blog comments and is therefore going to try and persuade bloggers to change to no follow.
I find them to be a two faced being that is only interested in themselves and expect nothing less from a huge faceless corporation. Isn’t it funny that on one hand they will penalize a blogger for doing paid ads and placing other ads on their blog, but it’s OK if you use links from their ‘google affiliate network’. In other words it’s ok as long as they have their finger in the pie.
I’m not upset by you going nofollow, it’s your blog and you can do with it as you will.
.-= Sire@WassupBlog´s last blog ..Perception Is Important To Your Blogging Career =-.
@Sire@WassupBlog, Thanks Sire, I completely agree with your points about ads, and I think that Google has us by the blogger balls, but I can’t help that.
I prefer that when I link to someone in my article, it is more helpful to them than a commentator that I may not even look to as a colleague. The fact that I changed to no-follow, doesn’t change the content that I write, and therefore shouldn’t change peoples mind about leaving a comment when they have something to say, and you being much like me in the opinions, I am sure you will comment when you have something to say, whether a link in the comment is do-follow or not, should not have an affect on that either way.
Thanks for dropping by as always, and thanks for the re-tweet as well!
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Linking Out For SEO =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal, Whilst that is true for some, me included as I don’t look to see whether a blog is dofollow or not, you may lose some commentators.
.-= Sire@WassupBlog´s last blog ..Where Bloggers Meet, A Forum For Bloggers =-.
I have used the dofollow, commentluv, and keywordluv on a couple of blogs. The only additional traffic I have seen is from people searching specifically for the keywords dofollow, commentluv, and keywordluv. The dofollow plugin has helped very little and it sounds like it might hurt me.
.-= Matt @ Rancho Cordova´s last blog ..Discussion with Author Dympna Ugwu-Oju at Folsom Lake College on Feb. 24 =-.
I am a little confused on this comment from your article Keith…
“Matt hints in the video that Google tries to make sure that someone else can be commenting on do-follow blogs that are “bad neighborhoods”, and you can’t control that fact, they try to make sure that can’t affect your site.
What does that mean exactly? It means that in order to protect you, they don’t weigh comment links.”
I don’t see where you are going with that point.
I DO see where Cutts talked about others linking TO you and how that cannot hurt you cuz you have no control. If Google penalized you for who linked TO you, then I could knock off any competitor by spamming him with V1@gra links or P#rn links.
BTW– I have sites that have gained very high PR from a few choice do-follow comments. But it took some fancy software and a lot of time to actually find high PR pages that allowed do-follow comments. (so I don’t grab PR that way anymore, too much work)
The point is that a link from a post is a link from a post no matter where it is. The bot can’t really tell if it is scanning/indexing comments content or regular post content… it just sees content in general. It just makes less juice transfer when there are 100 comments with do-follows as opposed to 2 comments on a post.
AL
.-= Allyn´s last blog ..Introduction To BackLink Stacking And Why =-.
@Allyn, I agree with you on your points Allyn, my main reason for removing do-follow, is that if I decide to link to you in my post ( which if I haven’t I am sure I will because you have some damn good content), then I want that link to be more important than links in comments. Does that make sense? (not sure I explained it right)
The fact that you found these sites to comment on to gain some rankings, is in my view, gaming the system. That isn’t necessarily bad all the time, but I think that Google made it’s algorithm with links counting as votes so that when I do link out to a site, I am “voting” that that site is a good one. I don’t necessarily “vote” on every site that leaves a comment here. And while that may seem harsh, it is the truth. My site doesn’t always have something in common with the sites that leave comments here.
An example would be: If (more like when) I write an article on linkbuilding, and I link to your post on stacking links, I want that link to be valued more than just anybody that leaves a comment here. As you know, PR flows evenly among all the links )dofollow links in Google’s case) pointing out of a particular page. If there are over 100 links on a page, then my link to you will essentially be worthless because I allow all my comment links to be followed.
It wasn’t an easy decision for me, but that is the main reason I did it. I want more control over who I value as an authority. Just because you leave a comment, doesn’t mean I think you are an authority on a topic.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Linking Out For SEO =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal, yeah man, that makes total sense. And when you explain it that way, it makes me rethink my do-follow on my blog as well.
BTW- I’ll still comment here anyway cuz you are a bad-a$$ LOL
.-= Allyn´s last blog ..Introduction To BackLink Stacking And Why =-.
@Allyn, Thanks Allyn, I always enjoy your comments and your content on your site is great too.
[...] believe that the spammers and scammers that are responsible for many of these great sites such as Hot Blog Tips Removing DoFollow From This Site are no better than terrorists who are infecting the internet for their own personal gain… [...]
Hi Keith for me personally i never comment on blogs just because they uses dofollow plugins i don’t uses it i support conversation for networking and knowledge reasons turning of dofollow is your choice the only plugin for me is the one one that shows your last blog post that is what leads me here great topic.
.-= lawmacs´s last blog ..Looking for inspiration =-.
@lawmacs, I have discovered many great blogs through that same plugin Gary. Thanks as always for the comment.
Keith I can totally understand why you removed dofollow. I actually never used dofollow on my blog.
I did so because I don’t want people to comment on my blog simply to get a link back to their web site. I want people to comment because they are interested in my content and blog in general. And yes you could of course argue that it’s a nice way of giving the people who comment on your blog something in return. But for me the thing you should give in return is not a link. It is treating them with respect and trying to build a relationship with them. Ultimately that’s the best thing you could ever ask for.
.-= Julius Kuhn-Regnier´s last blog ..How to Make a Great First Impression Through Guest Posts =-.
Great discussion Keith (and everyone).
You said, “they [Google] don’t weigh comment links”. That’s not what I heard. I heard Matt say that most do-follow blog get a ton of comments and that pagerank passed is split up among all those links thereby diluting the link benefit. I think he’s saying that commenting on blogs doesn’t hurt your site because anyone can be leaving the comment/link but it can help bring in pagerank – just a limited amount. That’s what I’m getting out of it anyway. I’ve watched it several times and every time I get something different.
I wish I could find it now but a few months ago he was talking about the so-called ‘link juice’ and he said that passing page rank with external links does not effect the pagerank of the site linking to the others such as comment links. He did say, even before, that we need to be careful who we link to because it does effect our reputation in Google’s eyes.
I have considered, many times, editing comments to remove irrelevant links such as AdSense and niche sites but so far have let them go. That could explain my low page rank. That and my poor admin skills
I will stay do-follow but the debate is pretty interesting. I picture the Google Gods snickering as they watch us squirm in their crystal ball saying, “They won’t figure it out until we own them all” ha ha.
I do agree with Gail that commenters that comment on do-follow blogs are not always doing it for ‘just’ the link juice. I’m going to go out on a limb and say very few people comment not hoping to get something out of it. Otherwise why leave a link at all, dofollow or not. Just make it anonymous or leave the website part of the form blank. Very few are willing to do that. Take that part of the comment form out and I think you will see a monologue blog <- ( catchy term). I think, for the most part, those that are regular commenters on my site are great bloggers and are contributing to the site overall. In fact, in my case, more than I am since post once in a blue moon lol
I also agree with John Sullivan. To me, it's ok for you to go no-follow this early in the game. I respect that and I will still comment. If I were to go no-follow now after getting thousands of comments using the do-follow as bait that would be wrong. It would be like me using my friends at work to get the promotion and then shoving my nose up once I have it.
As far as the current pagerank of HotBlogTips.com, I will confirm that it is low because I let it sit dormant for a very long time. I have several blogs like that and it's a waste of a great domain. I'm glad you took this over and I think you are doing a fantastic job. I fully expect the PR to soar very soon.
What a great debate! The only way this post could have been better is if you had guest posted it on my blog lol
.-= Brian D. Hawkins´s last blog ..5 Money Making Tips For Newbies =-.
@Brian D. Hawkins, I wasn’t trying to say that it would hurt this site (or any other site that has do-follow), but rather if you look at the number of links on a given page (most of my articles get quite a few comments) then the link juice is spread evenly among the do-follow links, therefore watering down any links I have in my articles, or in other places on the page (like the sidebar and the footer) which are the links I actually place on this site.
There is a section in the video where Matt discusses very briefly that comment links can be placed by anyone, so in order to protect site owners that may not be trying to place those links, especially in “scuzzy sites” they take precautions to make sure that doesn’t affect your site. I have been studying for about a year the quality of comment links and have felt that somehow Google doesn’t value these links as much as “natural” links placed in content. This makes sense to me (if that is actually the case) because backlinks are counted as “votes” and because you leave a comment on a site, doesn’t mean that site owner “votes” for your site, but if they link to you in an article or page, then it is obvious they are actually voting for your site.
Of course, there is no actual proof of this, but if you think about it under those terms, comment links are advertising or promotion, and nothing more. These links have great value, but I think they have more value as a promotional tool, than for gaining PR or search rankings.
Of course, that is mostly my opinion, other than the part about watering down the links in my content (which also may contain internal links) by allowing do-follow comments.
Anyway, thanks as always for your support Brian….
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Update on Hot Blog Tips Future =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal, I’m not sure that Matt is correct in saying that anyone can leave a comment, while in essence it is true most site owners would realize when someone uses another persons identity to leave a comment and would act accordingly. I’ve caught several of these myself.
I’m not sure why you would want to protect the value of the links in the sidebar or of the ones in the post, unless they were linking to your own sites.
.-= Sire@WassupBlog´s last blog ..Where Bloggers Meet, A Forum For Bloggers =-.
OK Keith, here goes. I just thought of something. Perhaps it’s already been mentioned above, but honestly I’m not going comment to comment to see. lol
IF comment links mean ZERO to the SE’s, Google at least, then what does it matter if you keep the plugin or not? Either way you say it makes no difference.
The ONLY reason I can see for deactivating is to dissuade spammer drive-by’s in collecting do follow blog URL’s…is this why?
.-= Dennis Edell´s last blog ..Do You Know The REAL Difference Between Bloggers and Internet Marketers? =-.
@Dennis Edell, Actually, I don’t mind moderating spam, the main reason for removing do-follow is because of the fact that it waters down links I place in my content, where I am actually trying to pass juice (or in my sidebar).
So whether the comment links mean anything to the SE’s or not, is still up for debate since Google is not very clear about it. What is clear, is how PR flows from a page.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Why Did I Unfollow Everyone on Twitter? =-.
@Keith Bloemendaal,
My bad I guess, I could swear you said above, Google does not value comment links for your protection.
Meaning – they were just there, but of no value either way for SEO.
So I was thinking, who cares what plugins are there? lol.
Before you ask, no way am I rereading every comment or the post to see where I read that. LOL
.-= Dennis Edell´s last blog ..Do You Know The REAL Difference Between Bloggers and Internet Marketers? =-.
FYI for those that may not know…..Keith said Google does not value comment links as highly as “natural” links within the body of a post; contextual links.
Fact is, they do not value ANY link as highly as those. Contextual links are the best you can give and/or get.
My apologies if this was already mentioned, I don’t recall seeing it.
.-= Dennis Edell´s last blog ..Do You Know The REAL Difference Between Bloggers and Internet Marketers? =-.
[...] a few days. I am commenting here and there, but a lot less than I used to. The funny thing is, since removing do-follow comment links from this site (and I have noticed several of you have as well) my comments have gone down, the quality of them is [...]
For some time now I have been reading all praises for Do-follow and other plug-ins. But your video was an eye-opener. It’s true many sites that I saw with do follow had so many spammy comments that I left without commenting even though the post was quite good. I felt that such comments show that the site is not edited enough by the owner.
[...] to the Do Follow/No Follow debates, and the Same Window/New Window debates, this is another one you must have seen by now; many [...]
Why are people so afraid to admit they comment on blogs to gain some type of benefit. I admit I comment on dofollow blogs for beneficial gain whether it helps in seo or just another way to network with other bloggers. However it is not a one way street when I comment, it is a comment that I feel will add some value to the topic in hand and provide some type of dialogue with the blogger.
I don’t comment on every do follow blog and I do comment on nofollow blogs as well but like Gail mentions you need to choose where to focus your efforts and I believe there are many dofollow bloggers I can learn from and network with and are genuinely interested in helping each other. Of course this is true of blogs that are nofollow as well but I choose to support blogs that dofollow like Gail and John Sullivan do.
Come on you think seeing the same people posting in dofollow blogs are coincidence?
For bloggers to say they don’t comment for some mutual benefit I would say for your next 50 comments leave out your website url when it comes time to leave that comment.
Keith you said plenty of them are doing it just to increase comments on their sites, and could care less about anybody but themselves. Yes there are also bloggers that feel a part of a “community” by doing that.Well you will find that to be true of life in general, in my experiences with do follow bloggers I would say for the most part most are generous and willing to help each other I have much respect for many of them as I am sure you do as well.
What was the reason your blog was dofollow to begin with? Wasn’t it to increase comments to your site?
I found your site through John Sullivan and believe you have great content and it is certainly your choice to go nofollow. I do agree with Brian’s statement in regards to using dofollow as bait is just wrong. I know this is not the case on your site since you just recently took it over but I have seen it done on many other sites.
Also Matt Cutt mentions in this video that only linking out to spammy sites can hurt your reputation he never says that it devalues comment links.This can be controlled in your moderation.
What makes them less worthy is the fact that typically dofollow blogs get more comments causing it to weigh down the pr that is distributed.
Keep up the good work.
.-= Dan @ Blogs about everything´s last blog ..Should I add Dofollow to my blog? =-.
@Dan @ Blogs about everything, Great comment Danny. Actually this site was Do-Follow when I took it over Jan 31st, but had sat without a post for almost 4mos because the owner didn’t have time to keep it up.
I support other bloggers because they have good content, period. Do-Follow, No-Follow, it doesn’t matter to me. I comment for many reasons on blogs (and I comment a lot), the main reason is that I have something to say, the second reason is because I have found that leaving great comments (like the one you just left) is a great way to network with other bloggers. I have made some great connections this way.
No I don’t think it is a coincidence that the same bloggers are seen on the same do-follow sites, even more of a non-coincidence is that you don’t see them on no-follow blogs. That says even more to me, maybe they are only commenting for a link?
Since writing this post, I have noticed 2 main stats changing. My comments have gone down (only a little) and my traffic has gone up (at the same rate it was before I made the change). Do I want more comments, of course I do. But I want comments because somebody truly has something to say, not because they want a link.
Gail is right about choosing where to focus your efforts, I just see focusing on a blogger because of a plugin is completely bogus! It is a false effort and shows true selfishness. I know the ones that stopped commenting here that commented on literally every post before I made the change, were commenting for selfish reasons.
I don’t have anything against do-follow blogs, and I agree that they stick together creating somewhat of a community, but my results show that some of them are truly only part of the “community” as a one way street, not a two way street.
Anyway, thanks again for probably one of the best comments in this debate Danny.
.-= Keith Bloemendaal´s last blog ..Blog Tip: Secret To Success =-.
Well I think your comments are going to continue to keep coming because you offer quality content and are well respected, I see a lot of blogs out there that would benefit from being dofollow.
To me there is nothing worse than a blog you visit and every post has 0 comments. To me a blog needs to have some sort of interaction otherwise you just have a static website.
I believe when there is always some sort of activity whether a new post or new comments it is telling the search engines come on back and check me out.
Also I have nothing against nofollow blogs, to me there is no right or wrong between dofollow and nofollow just a preference and certainly pros and cons to both.
.-= Dan @ Blogs about everything´s last blog ..Should I add Dofollow to my blog? =-.
[...] from Hot Blogging Tips has a different view in regards to dofollow vs nofollow blogs please check out his side and why he prefers being a nofollow [...]
I think this debate is getting quite hot on different forums. If you have time to moderate then let people do-follow, in my opinion, if you dont have time to read what people discuss about your topic then you might leave and do something else.
[...] DOES DOFOLLOW NEGATIVELY AFFECT PAGE RANK? [...]
[...] a pro or con to how we decide to do things as those who are following the KeywordLuv CommentLuv dofollow debate have [...]
@Keith Bloemendaal
i have to agree with you on this one. DoFollow or NoFollow really doesn't matter if the comment is adding something to the blog. I mean the whole purpose of commenting to begin with is and should be about interaction, not getting links so much. It's a way having a conversation after all.